A Lurker's Rant on RF Mechanics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by RumbleNomad, Oct 28, 2018.

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  1. RumbleNomad

    RumbleNomad Well-Known Member

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    Hi! I've been here since 08' and just really been along for the ride! This is all really just conjecture and observations. TLDR is located at the end!

    In my mind RF has always been a mixture of fighting game mechanics in an MMO which has been a benefit but mainly a detriment to the growth of the game. Any time infinite combos are introduced into a game there have been a few ways around it. Rumble Fighter has TRIED and failed to fix some of these by doing their own thing.

    I'm going to give a full run down of what our mechanics are and why some of them just don't work or are just not thought out at all. Now not all of these apply but it's to give a general run down of how some similar games are balanced.

    1. Damage Scale
    2. Burst Mechanics
    3. Ground Recovery
    4. Air Recovery
    5. Time Limit
    6. Grab Breaking
    7. Boundaries
    8. Knock-back
    9. Hit Boxes
    10. Aerial Combat




    Now we know that we for almost the entire expanse of the game has some of these but not others. Or they are implemented in such a way they don't matter.

    BURST MECHANICS

    The burst mechanic in our game is "Air Panic" or "Panic Attack" PA and AP for short, however there is almost NO counter play to PA beside Blocking/Exo/Baiting. Instead of building upon the mechanic they just trashed it out without much thought. So then you AP which is easily countered by Blocking/PA/Attacking/Exo/Baiting, It feels as if no one weighted the pros/cons of AP vs PA. At this point it's better to take the loss then to take then off chance the person you're fighting with isn't expecting it or is too slow to react properly. Faux Break which also falls underneath the burst mechanic terminology which was a perfectly fine concept. The main problem was that it was completely gutted from the game as a "bug" instead of being built upon because it is a lesser Killer Instinct Combo Breaker. This was a MAJOR short sight on their part and may have branched into better burst mechanics.

    Definition of Faux Break : "Faux Break is done by cancelling someones panic with your own panic and then rapidly unleashing a nanmu at them."

    DAMAGE SCALING or THREE HIT RULE
    To get a better understanding of the Three Hit Rule just look up Rumble Fighter Wikia Three Hit Rule

    In our game they will gain immunity and fall directly to the ground unless this rule is broken. If this didn't exist you would be able to infinite with nothing but a punch. So how is that using an elevated surface to Bounce Up Juggle "BU for short" is not removed from the game? The answer sadly is they would have to complete restructure how combos work as it is the ONLY reason they couldn't get rid of this. My problem with this entire thing is that this allows for extended/infinite combos with certain scrolls allows for non diminishing damage but IMO this is to blame because of how the game is coded.

    All in all the system is sub-par and doesn't discourage infinite combos, this isn't to say that they shouldn't exist. I think that every scroll should have extended and/or reset combos however the damage needs to go down to a certain extent to the point where the Three Hit Rule effect happens.

    GROUND RECOVERY

    Listen, I don't know WHO allowed this to be a cash item, but they are evil for this. The amount of skill required for this is almost not even worth talking about,

    [You hit the ground]
    [You hit a button]
    [You get up faster w/ frames]

    Really? This is a 2D concept in a 3D game, you essentially just got rid of vortex which this game had because this game doesn't possess a wall splat mechanic or a cumbersome 3D walking mechanic like Tekken which is the balance. So you are put into one of the following groups :

    1. It pretty much eradicates the vortex strategy in a lot of scenarios
    or
    2. If you don't have it you will die to vortex

    This one wrote itself really, bottom line is EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE THE SAME BASIC MOVE SET. Or if you're feeling really froggy add a wall splat which resets what direction you are facing AWAY FROM THE WALL

    AERIAL COMBAT (or lack there of)

    Okay, VIRGIN JUMP + PUNCH I have never witness in my entire life a more useless move. Not only is the J+P not angled in such a way that it hits without having to be at the lowest point of the jump, it's shorter and does less damage. I've literally stared at my computer screen for 10 minutes trying to think of some good in J+P and I couldn't . Okay moving on past this POS, we have the CHAD JUMP KICK, Its so versatile and long that players just cant get enough of it. When combined with low jumping it allows so many other options it's not even funny anymore.

    I wrote this in part for ham-fisted poor comedic value but its not untrue, if it wasn't for what Jump + Kick allows I can't really fathom it not being there. However if you were to remove Jump + Punch no one would really care. I'm of the thought that when you punch you should actively be trying to hit someone. #ANGLEALLPUNCHES

    This is possibly the last one unless I think of another gross offender but last not least

    Grab Mechanics
    Grabs in almost every single fighting game can be broken and/or escaped from, Rumble Fighter has no way of getting out of grabs to such extent it seems intentional. I honestly can't even think of why grabs would be put in with no way of countering them.

    TLDR : "Mechanics can only be judged if you put them in there, however if they aren't watched and adjusted what's the purpose of having variation?"

    Thanks for reading, I apologize for poor grammar and what not. Sorry if it seems lazy towards the end but talking Rumble Fighter makes me sad.

    Back into my corner I go!
     
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  2. galken

    galken New Member

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  3. ProfessorZtar

    ProfessorZtar Community Advisor (Rumble Fighter)

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    1. Faux Break was broken in RF because of edges, and because you didn't have to time the panic to faux. You could spam the input while doing your Nanmu to instantly do the faux and keep your Nanmu going for an easy edge kill since people who used Faux Break usually used scrolls with fencer Nanmus. I love that it's gone, since you currently have to use actual skill to do a full nanmu (and by that, I mean you have to bait out or waste your opponents panics, which they usually have 2 since 2x panics exist for some reason, so you can then unleash a full Advance Nanmu juggle safely.)

    2. Damage scaling would have been nice back when Damage Values weren't skewed stupidly to "hinder stat bonuses." They implemented Air Panics to help people get out of infinite juggles and resets. Bu Juggles take a decent amount of skill to consistently pull off, too. Also, the three hit rule doesn't care about damage; it cares about whether or not the move you use has a checkbox ticked saying it's a "first hit." This means the First Punch and First Kick on any scroll, jump punches and jump kicks, and all dash-based Exocore skills. Some moves do not reset the three hit rule, too, like all of Sage's moves that use the green (or black for Sage BLK) fire, for instance. I think they fixed Black Out's kick bypassing the rule, too, which is nice. (The second hit of the two-hit first kick won't connect if the first hit doesn't connect when juggling.)

    3. Agreed. Saver is absolutely stupid in its implementation. You don't put UNIVERSAL GAME MECHANICS behind a paywall. Rebirth should have been Crits Vs Luck, not Crits Vs The Ability to Tech. It should have been an ability to get alongside the Nanmu, at the very least.

    4. Also agreed. If I recall correctly, though, the jump punch used to have INSANE hit-stun and block-stun, but was nerfed heavily. The air punch is useless nowadays, unless you're using the Android scrolls or Metatron. The Android jump punch is angled downward, giving it a better hitbox, and Metatron's has the backwards hitbox which is more meme-y than it is useful, but it's better than the default jump punch regardless. The only actual use for the default jump punch is found when drop juggling with Meriken.

    5. Also agreed, sort of. There's this bug that lets you get out of grabs by changing your animation at the same time as being grabbed. You'll still take damage, and the bug is frame perfect, but it has saved me and my opponents so very many times from being thrown off of Moon. I'd love to see a legitimate version of the bug that plays its own animation that doesn't give either player a frame advantage.

    Also, if they were to bring back Faux Breaks, it would need it's own animation AND not be something you can do just by spamming the panic input while Nanmuing. :v Seriously, some people just don't understand how important animations are. It's very much the difference between an intentional mechanic versus a bug caused by programming errors. > .>

    [Edit] Wait, I may have had the thought of Faux Breaking wrong. It seems it was something that let you ignore hit-stun and then nanmu.


    Still, having an animation would make it more legitimate and less bug-like.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  4. Draygashi

    Draygashi World Record (Al Hata), CUC

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    @ProfessorZtar Faux Break actually did require timing as it involved using your Nanmu to break your own panic animation (very much like using your Nanmu to break your grab's animation). This could be done at any time, not just when the opponent used their panic. You would have to press (X+C) then V [or Punch + Kick then Nanmu], but you had to press it precisely. You couldn't just spam it. And again, you could do it at any time. You didn't even have to be attacked to do it, you could just do it standing still. There were pros and cons to it, by sacrificing a panic and your only Nanmu while being able to evade a lot of attacks because of the panic attack's slight invincible frames.
     
  5. ProfessorZtar

    ProfessorZtar Community Advisor (Rumble Fighter)

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    Ah. Then, what's the thing called where someone gets to just flat out ignore your panic during their nanmu by using their panic? That's the thing I was thinking of, which can be done by spamming the panic input while nanmuing, but I don't think it's called a Faux Break.
     
  6. Draygashi

    Draygashi World Record (Al Hata), CUC

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    That's called a Panic Break. It can be done ALMOST anywhere, but you need to be the one performing the combo or Nanmu for it to be done. You can either combo or Nanmu and spam the input to panic, while still mashing the combo's input or the punch input during your Nanmu, in hopes they use their panic to stop your Nanmu. If done correctly, you just bypass their panic while sacrificing yours to maintain your combo or Nanmu.

    TL;DR - Faux Break starts a Nanmu, Panic Break prevents the Nanmu from being interrupted
     
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  7. ProfessorZtar

    ProfessorZtar Community Advisor (Rumble Fighter)

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    Ah.
    Then it's Panic Breaks that I hate, not Faux Breaks. Alrighty then. :3 Glad that's cleared up. :D
     
  8. Jazztech

    Jazztech Well-Known Member

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    For your next trick, explain 4b
     
  9. Draygashi

    Draygashi World Record (Al Hata), CUC

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    Same thing as Faux Break, can be done while being attacked or literally just standing still doing nothing. This "mechanic" was far more broken than Faux Break in terms of how it worked, as it would put you in recovery state even if you weren't knocked down. But pretty much, you pressed the input for panic (P + K) then press Punch or Kick again what felt like 2 frames (2 milliseconds) after you pressed the input for panic and you do a Recovery Attack depending on which input you pressed. As for the "4B Faux Break" it is the same thing as the Recovery Attack, except you press the command to "Recovery Grab" (Roll the Punch input into the Guard input while in recovery state) then Nanmu out of that animation. Both 4B Recovery Attack and 4B Faux Break pretty much required a macro program as no one can precisely time 2 milliseconds, unless they got lucky a couple times and/or button mashed until their keyboards broke.

    Faux Break, 4B Recovery Attack, and 4B Faux Break are all patched since the Panic Attack has too many active frames on it now and is extremely difficult to manually break the animation again on your own.
     
  10. Jazztech

    Jazztech Well-Known Member

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    Now explain this new tech I hear people calling Rebound
     
  11. Draygashi

    Draygashi World Record (Al Hata), CUC

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    Air Panic?
     
  12. Jazztech

    Jazztech Well-Known Member

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  13. TheDL6Incident

    TheDL6Incident Creator of Buki

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    But... that has been in the game for a long time
     
  14. Jazztech

    Jazztech Well-Known Member

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    I've only seen people call it something in recent times
     
  15. HumoLoco

    HumoLoco Clean Up Crew

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    All I want the old skills from 07 to 09 back where Nimonix took our potential away. Air panic is stupid but useless potential.

    Yet I am thinking of Nimonix should implement the cancel soft and hard feint or cancel the combo into nanmnu.

    Soft feint should allow you combo into grab or counter without the cost.

    Hard feint should allow you combo into sacrificing panic to nanmnu like faux and bpanic.



    That's come out from GC and they never fix it it's annoying aff. And levi is worst tho.
     
  16. ProfessorZtar

    ProfessorZtar Community Advisor (Rumble Fighter)

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    I can show you a better one of those:

    Ugh. These forums don't support time stamps... It's at 2:10 in the video. :v
     
  17. Suite

    Suite Metatron Master

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    BURST MECHANICS
     
  18. Suite

    Suite Metatron Master

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    Panic Break and Faux break are pretty fair tactics considering Most clowns now days have major handicaps like multiple Panic to prevent it. The problem is this game has a good amount problematic clowns who think anything that wasn't intentionally added to a game is a exploit and should be illegal even if its agreeably a fair tactics...Its the same clowns abusing the OP BS getting added to this game an get mad over nerfs. At the end of the day this game wasn't about skillful tactics. Its was all about who got the best stats and abusing OP handicap bs....

    I heard this called super jump before but rebound is a better name.But this is just another Breakpoint collision trick.
    When multiple breakpoints collide you get a combination of breakpoints.Some of the frames in the breakpoint might break and some might collide and combine with the remaining to make a new trick.

    In rebound situation your landing from a jump and getting hit at the same time.
    Your rebound jump sends you in there air depends on the type of hit or hit stun the hit has.Its hard to say if its hit stun or something else that is causing the slide to send people farther then a recovery kick. as shown in the videos above. So when the breakpoints collide its probably breaking the landing frames.Leaving the hit stun frames in the hit to collide with the jump frames to send you back into a jump.

    Again its very hard to accurately say what is going in the breakpoint collision because its frames and breakpoints are under the hood type stuff that we don't have access too. Just know that most tricks (Block drop, P break, Faux break, 4B, Core Skip, S continue, R break, Run drop, Emote Drop, z stall, Low Jump, Canceling Grabs) and even other games like COD and Fortnite had breakpoint collision tricks( Silent Shot/QS, & even double pump)


     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  19. Jazztech

    Jazztech Well-Known Member

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    I think how far you get knocked back during a rebound depends on how much aerial knockback the hit has. At least, that's what it seems when I was trying this with a friend. I didn't go that far in the video because recovery kicks don't have a lot of air knockback, but my friend and I tried this with rams and you go a lot further, faster.
     
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  20. Hercule

    Hercule Well-Known Member

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    Who gave it that name lol
     
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