Enough Trolling, lets put some good Ideas down

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by machatzi, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. yougetsnada

    yougetsnada Member

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    I'm sorry do I know you? Do you see me on a day to day basis? How the hell do you know what I do? If I have a life or not?
    You deffend yourself in the game, not real life.
    The response you gave me was one from an under aged mind with latterly no common sense, I play this game for fun also, and I'm not telling not to have fun, just don't try to change the game so only your having fun.
    Never said you had no life either so why bring that up? Trying to convince yourself of something?
    You say you do real things, stop talking **** you know nothing about and go do those things.

    Quote: Why do you think PvPers should be given special treatment and allowed to play how they want, where ever they want, without needing to spend time, money or effort? Unquote.
    That's so you remember what you wrote. Child.
     
  2. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    I don't need to know you, I can learn from what you say. Although I wasn't replying to you in the first place, unless you're using a second account, which they have now said is against the rules.

    You cannot "defend" yourself from having a bad time, when it is possible for people to force you into it. A PvP switch would be my "defense" from people like you being able to force me to play PvP.

    PvP = someone blasting music I don't like right outside my window. PvP switch = ear plugs.
    DOES THIS COMPUTE?
    We aren't asking for them to change the game, since Acclaim made this game PvE years ago. Or are you trying to deny and revise the history of the game, and where most of the people on this server came from?

    The response I gave you was logical and reasoned, and I have far more sense than you.
    You are the one that telling me I should have to play your way, which I don't find fun. I just want a way to turn PvP off for myself. If that means 99% of the server does as well, too bad. Not our fault no one wants to play with the poor PvP kids. I guess that means your way of playing isn't as fun as you think it is.

    I didn't bring it up. I said I reserve the use of words like "stronger" for real things. If you took it to mean I was saying you have no life, that says more about you than me.

    Yes? And?
    Read the whole quote in context.
    I asked why PvE players should have to do anything extra just to play how we want, while PvP players don't.

    You're the only one being childish.
     
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  3. yougetsnada

    yougetsnada Member

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    haha sure buddy. whatever helps you sleep at night.
     
  4. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    "A pooh-pooh (also styled as poo-poo)[2] is a fallacy in informal logic that consists of dismissing an argument as being unworthy of serious consideration.[3] Scholars generally characterize the fallacy as a rhetorical device in which the speaker ridicules an argument without responding to the substance of the argument."
     
  5. Deuslucifer

    Deuslucifer New Member

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    I'll love a Anti-Pk Buff :DD !
    You want some pvp action, don't use the buff.
    You want to enjoy safe Grinding and a great pve time, you use it.

    I really like Pvp and Pve, but i don't like being killed and dying when i just want to lvl up.
    Just my toughs.
     
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  6. Zaraton

    Zaraton Member

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    There is no sense in arguing with people like youget as they don't understand people play MMOs for different reasons and everyone should be treated equally. Their stance is for all PvE players to leave and go to a different MMO leaving the server for the most part a ghost town only filled with PvP players. They already stated that they are only here for PvP not the future of 9Dragons.

    In the other thread they didn't want to accept a neutral stance even if you set up a button system to activate/deactivate PvP. Ofcourse, There would have to be conditions to this and it could be built off of to add more PvP content.

    Conditions of PvP activation/deactivation button:
    • Once PvP is activated you can't leave PvP for 2 hours of active map side EXP gaining/char leveling
    • Anyone who kills someone once who is within color range on enemy HP bar gets no time added
    • Anyone who kills a player that is blue/red to them gets 20 minutes added to time
    • Anyone who kills a player (15/20)+ levels outside of level range gets 1 hour and a 75% stat debuff
    • Characters remain on server for 10-15 seconds after a disconnection in PvP combat
    • No karma lost from players too far from killer's karma range and killer gains no karma
    Now to what content could be added to this:
    • Hero Band/Hero League sanctioned map wars where the above conditions are null and void if both sides agree to said war
    • PvP and PvE ranking systems where Hero Band/Hero Leagues get rewards from being in top 10 on server (rewards scale)
    • Instanced Castle Siege wars for area control on maps to gain a portion of economy
    The content added part could be expanded on but would need to have a PvE/PvP toggle button for this to work but during wars the conditions of the activation button become null and void but turns into a full PvP field for warring groups until their war is over. Only one group should be able to war another at a time to promote fairness. It should also have a range restriction for wars based on ranking chart.

    The above is why I recommended the PvP/PvE toggle button as it is easier to implement these under that system.

    P.S. For those annoyed with the constant feeling that PvP is being shoved down your throats message my forum inbox and I can give a quality alternative to this game that promotes equality between both sides (at most 1 hour in PvP if you don't want to be a part of it).
     
  7. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    Oh I know. But by arguing with them, maintaining good logic, reason and rationale, and showing how irrational, illogical and unreasonable the PvP zealots are... I can show the publisher (if they actually care about keeping this game going, and it isn't just a cash grab) that we PvE players are the ones worth listening to.

    There is also the issue that they try as hard as they can to shout down anyone who puts up a good argument against them. Trying to keep said arguments from being seen by the powers that be. The only way to make sure their BS isn't taken seriously, is to keep opposing it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
  8. Asylum

    Asylum New Member

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    zaraton is as a know it all as acidhedz.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Zaraton

    Zaraton Member

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    You and all the other gear based PvP game addicts crack me up. Verbally attack others without giving any constructive feedback on the matter. Either keep quiet or post something positive related to the topic rather than trying to derail this thread. I posted my observations and gave ideas on how they can fix the entire PvP system because if you compare it to other MMOs with PvP the PvP content here is a joke. I'm sorry if you side with people who make posts that lack common sense in the context.
     
  10. Asylum

    Asylum New Member

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    [Insert carebear.jpg]
     
  11. Zukee

    Zukee Active Member

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    Bruh i just skip the acidheadz post and move to the next post since it always talk about "pvp off button" and he doesnt seem to get it.
     
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  12. ShaKira2008

    ShaKira2008 Member

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    my Personal Feedback : Sell the game to a willing, kind, common sense company ..that had bath within the wisdom of 9D.
     
  13. Louguoshen

    Louguoshen Active Member

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    Huh? Its not too hard. Some code and condition of this system very easy. Did you try to write flow chart?
     
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  14. Zaraton

    Zaraton Member

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    You are funny thinking Griefing = PvP. This is how sad the younger generation is when it comes to the PvP scene. As I said before 9Dragons lacks incentive for PvP while even Blade & Soul has incentives for PvP. It rewards PvP players while not stomping on the PvE players. Hell, Even the Pay to Win PWI game has better PvP than 9Dragons. The only reason I bring these two games up is to compare the PvP. There are many more examples I can toss out as well.

    Again, I PvP but not grief others. If this is carebear then so be it but you are just butthurt that people are requesting a fair gameplay feature and you won't be able to go around griefing if it gets implemented. Cry some more

    To help support your comment.

    Programming this would be easy depending on the tool used to create the game. For atleast Unity3d and Unreal Engine 4 you would do it this way.

    • Create Player vs Player flag in the editor
    • Make an off/on toggle script with a button or some other method of choice
    • Set rules in said script for the limitations you want
    • If you have Hero League vs Hero League wars just set them to override default PvP conditions
    This is only difficult if your programming knowledge isn't strong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
  15. Louguoshen

    Louguoshen Active Member

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    I think some Programmer from JW may be good.....just may be...
    Are you game designer too? great but i love about Animating, Level Design , Graphic design atm. not same the past i'm in team as coding. (Pinterest get me love to be designer XD)
     
  16. Louguoshen

    Louguoshen Active Member

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    colorful sand may be better than beach sand :)
     
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  17. Fullneo

    Fullneo Well-Known Member

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    I agree, they already have built something in game.
    They just have to fix it and put it back on hermit.
     
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  18. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    A buff may make sense in Korea, where they have a different culture around playing games. Hey, it's a small country and it gives them something to do, I get it. They love competitive gameplay.

    But this is supposed to be a US server, and we have a very different culture. One size does not fit all, after all.
    A significant number of people don't like playing PvP at all. Another significant amount only want to play PvP on their terms, in designated maps or duels.
    In that case a buff has the effect of forcing us to keep going back to get buffed, just to turn off a game feature we don't want forced on us.

    It's no different to turning off lions roar in the options because you get sick of them spamming up chat.
    Or turning off chat because you get sick of seeing kids talking smack at each other.
    Or turning off party requests because you want to grind alone.

    Or anything else that can be turned off in options. Some people LOVE those aspects of the game too. But none of them are on the forum complaining that not all "the kids" want to play how they like to play, or play for the same reasons.

    A buff makes PvE players into second-class citizens of the game. If they can make a buff, they can make a bag that has the same effect. Which means only 1 thing has to be added to the game in order to give us a working PvP toggle. And unless you want to run around with an empty bag all the time, it's no easy to exploit it either.
    Put the buff in for players who want to quickly switch back and forth. Give us a bag that can turn off PvP for those who want a long term solution.
    OR just put a toggle switch in the log-in screen. Or, as some have suggested, make it a self-buff everyone can learn. Or, make it an option that can't be activated for a certain period of time after engaging in PvP.

    There are lots of solutions, any and all fairly easy to implement. And there is no objective reason for them not to do it.
     
  19. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    Then we would have to farm for it. A self-buff anyone can learn would be better. Just make it so it can't be used for a couple of hours after attacking someone.
    We can keep our self-buff up. People who want to switch can let it run out, or is there a way to turn a buff off yourself? I forget.
    And anyone that does PvP, or tries to PK, can't use it for an hour or two after attacking.

    That would be one of the more new-code heavy options, but it is an option.
     
  20. shinsetsuna

    shinsetsuna New Member

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    Well well, the years pass, publishers come and go, but 9dragons still endures. Sadly, so do the same old problems that plague it. But then again, here I am unable to keep my opinion to myself. Might as well just give my two cents and at least get that off my back, even if I do end up simply speaking in an empty space.

    Warning: Wall of text incoming, but anyone who actually cares for suggestions and feedback wont mind some reading, I hope.

    First, my stance on the matter: Personally, I find myself favoring the PvE aspect of 9dragons simply because its what I find most interesting. Grinding doesnt really bring me joy, but getting nice looking gear and seeing the world and lore of 9dragons does, even though I admit it isnt particulary rich neither in quantity nor in quality, but it does have a...unique "something" to it that somehow manages to keep me interested and coming back, despite what I believe are many missed opportunities in its development. As such, I think that regardless of the long-term solution, in the short-term its important to get the Anti-PvP buff functioning. Its by no means enough, but it will actually give time for RedFox to look for better solutions in the meantime and make the current state of 9d more bearable for a lot of its population.

    As for the long-term solution, a means for deactivating PvP through a toggle button is something I find appealing. Im fine with it being in the log in screen or in game. Other solutions that have been proposed arent exactly bad, but I feel like they have far too much probability of the publisher "getting it wrong". Im seeing nightmares of having to grind an anti-pk buff, and nonsense of that kind will have me out the door and waiting for the next publisher with no hesitation. If people are concerned about people abusing the toggle option by going PvP, causing mischief and the toggling back to PvE to avoid retribution, you could always put a timer on it so once you switch to one mode, you cant switch back for a while.

    I know this thread is also about trying to find a solution for both the PvE crowd and the PvP crowd, but to be honest its difficult to defend the PvP side, simply because PvP in 9dragons is fundamentally flawed. Its boring and one dimensional, its unbalanced and its unreasonable except for whales and the "First come first served" crowd. I dont care if this style of PvP works in Korea, because its a moot point. Weve had PvP servers here in the Western version plenty of times, and they always had the lowest population and, when it came down to the wire and costs had to be cut, the PvP server has always proven to be the weak link. Why? Because the PvP in 9dragons is self destructive for its players, it drives players away, and it drives potential customers away, and that will eventually kill the game. I cant really compare with Korea because Im missing too much information about how they do PvP, but if the history of the Western version of 9dragons teaches us anything, its this: the PvP servers dont last, and if you want to avoid the fate that Asura or Yin had, youll have to do address this problem sooner rather than later.

    And to finalize, Id like to mention some things that I believe would make PvP more appealing and more accesible to a wider audience, because despite the impression that my post has probably given up to this point, I actually DO want PvP in 9dragons to be interesting:

    First, maintain Bloody Plains and CC, and maybe the highest level map currently in the game (which at this point would be Tibet, if Im not mistaken) as PvP areas regardless of the setting in the toggle option on login, BUT let the Anti-PvP buff work in these maps. At least in these maps, make it necessary for players to invest something to be able to grind there, everywhere else players should be able to grind without being bothered and without having to constantly make trips to buff themselves if they so choose. Make SURE that the Anti-PvP buff lasts as long as the CC poison protection buff. More people being able to take advantage of CC is a good decision for RedFox in the long run, since people will have more BE to use in refinement, which encourages people to buy items to protect their refinement attempts and gets gold out of the system through the cost of the buffs and refinement costs. RedFox makes some money, the economy is kept healthy, players are kept interested and the competition in PvP is kept exciting because people can gear up. Win-win.

    Second, give more incentives for people to participate in PvP. This means that while the best rewards should go to the winners, the people who lost should at least get something for participating, and it should be useful things both for the winners as well as for the losers. If people participate in a tournament, dont insult your players by giving the winners 20 BE and giving the losers cowpats. Give the winners 20 BE and the losers 3 BE, for instance. The winners got the better prizes, but the losers also got something out of it at least. Otherwise, you are encouraging the people who win to keep trying to win and do everything they can to ensure they keep winning (such as not letting people grind or improve their gear to stand a better chance) and the people who lose wont bother to participate unless theyre sure they can win. It makes it fun and worthwhile for a few by making it pointless and uninteresting for many.

    TL;DR version: PvP in 9dragons is flawed, so people should be given the option to not be forced into it if the want. The Anti-PvP buff essential and a good start, but not really sufficient. A long-term solution also has to be included. PvP also needs to be revised to make it less one sided and more appealing for people to get involved in it.
     
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