[Official]Scroll Tier Rankings

Discussion in 'Game Guides' started by TheFuzionBranz, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. TheFuzionBranz

    TheFuzionBranz Well-Known Member

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    My point. It can end a game IF:
    -Player burns panic at the start of a round
    -If you have a perfect position for nanmu juggle+combo
    -If you can get wall and or back.
    If you adv nanmu a player with panic, Lets forget about that ultra long combo.

    As of now, the general damage of a scroll is around 800dmg lately. Thats pretty much 2-3 juggles if you include all other possible actions on the ground that happen on a normal basis in every fights. (Jump hits, grabs, half combos, counters, groundhit+saver play), But since you`re going for figures here lets say its 4 juggles for a regular scroll, 3 for Kingpin.

    Kingpins animations, hitbox and movement partern are total shit so I wouldnt recommended it to anyone over any other scroll and I would never use it in a high tier game play. It is not high tier.
     
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  2. TheFuzionBranz

    TheFuzionBranz Well-Known Member

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    As of now I will be responding to all questions regarding scrolls, why I judge them such a tier, I will consider all of your opinions and take note. Refer to main post at bottom for response to questions.
     
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  3. tamirtov

    tamirtov Clean Up Crew

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    Why is tempest B-?
     
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  4. TheFuzionBranz

    TheFuzionBranz Well-Known Member

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    Juggle launcher is in most cases only useful when applied by surprise in a free for all situation. Its a 2hitter that is easy to punish, Yes there is a 3rd hit you can do but it will put you even more at risk if blocked. Its combos are pretty normal... it has a fencer but is punch based so its not something that is reliable. The angle 3 hit punch combo is a nice feature however that doesnt make up for the rest. Its not super quick, stun/recovery isn't impressive. Its best feature is the Cz. Kick combo IMO feels too slow and stiff also.
     
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  5. Jarrod

    Jarrod Active Member

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    Why do you have "B-" above "B"
     
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  6. TheFuzionBranz

    TheFuzionBranz Well-Known Member

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    Ment to be B+ / B-

    Thanks I didnt notice,Will fix asap
     
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  7. BloodNinja

    BloodNinja Well-Known Member

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    Why not simply put it at a+ with a star next to it
     
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  8. BloodNinja

    BloodNinja Well-Known Member

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    I think shaolin Tiger should be atleast s tier every single move is safe a 2 hit launcher invincibility frames and a high damage output and 2 resets
     
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  9. TheFuzionBranz

    TheFuzionBranz Well-Known Member

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    Shaolin Tiger is slow. Easy to counter punch combo and kick combo. While it is a Top scroll in RF atm, it is not S tier. It does not have the perfect pressure that muay boran and electro can apply, or the safety+pressure of Akido or White fang.



    Kingpin is not a A tier scroll. Even at B tier compared to average RC scrolls, It is at a dissadvantage. Just because it has the potential to do a HUGE COMBO once, other scrolls to can do simular combos EASIER (ex; Tong) which has a reset also.

    Kingpin is very hard to control, No matter how good you are; Using this scroll you will need to put a higher part of your concentration into controlling the scroll, predicting where the hits will bring you and/or if they will hit. Its easy to counter, zero stun at all and the main damage combo is a punch combo.

    Now if we take Tongbeiquan, Which IMO is the best example to compare it too. Both have 5 hit punch combos, Decent damage kick combos. Tong has amazing angles, hitbox and range while Kingpin has alot of dead spots in its range and mixed "lunges" in all of its combos. Tong has massive delays on EVERY hit while Kingpin on some. It is alot safer to spam with safety Tong's kick combo, And then it has a 2 hit launcher which is a good surprise with such a kit. While Kingpins is a longer and unsafe 3 hit combo.
    Tong has one of the best Cz features in the game while Kingpin has a basic ground pound then second hit with a launcher, Which is pretty unsafe to use (Punishable).
    Tong has a reset.
    Tong can reset its nanmu into a juggle.

    Kingpin is not close to A tier.
    If I didnt have such a large skill gap within the B tier and grouped scrolls more strictly, Kingpin would be C tier.
     
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  10. Tengu

    Tengu Creator of Savate

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    It's not.
     
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  11. Tengu

    Tengu Creator of Savate

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    Are we really comparing Kingpin to Tonbeiquan which does 300 less per combo unless you reset kick them 3-5 times depending on STRvsARM? Kingpin still has a 5hit that can fence while ending in a grab for 100% air damage plus easy advance cancel, BU launch, ground hit protected by a stun, and has a forward grab to compliment being a pressure scroll while still having a stationary reversal counter to fix the loss of your backward throwing grab. Aiming is not that hard and it becomes even easier after extended use with a scroll tho even I can admit Kingpin has a handful of hitboxes that **** nuts but it makes up for it. Kingpin is a solid A- at minimum.

    http://rfscrolls.pbworks.com/w/page/44168161/Tier List

    Galdeira, the guy who used to make guides for almost literally -all- the scrolls, considered it A+ tier for one reason or another. A+ to B- is a huge leap.

    Also what makes this official?
     
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  12. TheFuzionBranz

    TheFuzionBranz Well-Known Member

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    I've made many indepth and extensive guides for many scrolls, Which Galdeira and Aarondesu have used to rate and help with scroll explaination in their own threads. Galdeira, As well as Aaron were simply regular players who enjoyed helping others by giving scroll dmg outputs, combos and descriptions of animations. They didn't even take the time to buy and fully analyze the behavior of scrolls or discover advance combos/nanmu juggles. If ever found They took note of it and added it to info.

    They did a decent job, but the indepth part was never really judge by them. They had mistakes and judged on wrong things.


    I self-proclaim this thread as official. As it is the only use here besides yours. (Yusuke closed his thread upon the making of mine because I can actually judge well and many players would rather my ratings). I have also need in charge of main/best rated scroll guilds and tier threads since OGP, to gamescampus and now I am recreating it in PlayRedFox.

    This site dates back from 2012, With minor edits on a few pages 3 years ago. You can also tell with the tier list, That this was poorly made.

    Galdeira did put alot of work into his site, getting scroll numbers and creating a discription, but it was far from a great GUIDE and RATING site. As for "Spammable", its a rediculous way to judge a scroll. Many scrolls can spam. Spamming isn't anywhere close to a smart tactic and will just bring you to being countered easily. The only cases where a scroll should be labed "Spammable" is ZinKarate, BloodWind, ZinTKD, and only a few others because of their incredible strong stun+speed+recovery ratio.



    300 less per combo, but since when was damage everything?
    You will get in combos way easier with Tong compared to Kingpin. If we would do a experimental study on average per round how many times a Kingpin user lands a combo and a half combo from someone unblocking or falling into it, compared Tonbeiquan, It would be way lower than Tonb.

    Let me go over how you judge skills, with how I judge skills. If you really want to believe what you say after, thats on you and I won't really care. Just know if you really think that you are potentially a better player because you picked Kingpin over Shootboxing on any map in the game, You are wrong and only hurting yourself.


    Main punch combo:
    Tongbeiquan - PPPPP - 525
    Kingpin - PPKKP - 545
    Best delays: Tongbeiquan
    Best damage: Kingpin by 20
    Best safety: Tongbeiquan
    Best recovery: Tongbeiquan
    Best angle hitbox: Tongbeiquan
    Best range: Tongbeiquan
    Bonuses for Tongbeiquan: Final hit has increased knockback.
    Bonuses for Kingpin: Easy advance nanmu because of grab hit.
    Disadvantages for Kingpin: Grab will only hit a maximum of 1 player in the end. The knockback from the grab combo doesnt go over fences unless the hits prior to it lift them past it.


    Main kick combo:
    Tongbeiquan - KKK - 490
    Kingpin - KKKK - 490
    Best delays: Tongbeiquand
    Best safety: Tongbeiquan
    Best damage: Equal
    Best recovery: Tongbeiquan
    Best angle hitbox: Tongbeiquan
    Best range: Tongbeiquan
    Bonuses for Tongbeiquan: All damage is done pretty much within less than a second with hit 1 and 2 combined.
    Bonuses for Kingpin: Because Tonbeiquan does all this with perfect range without moving alot, Kingpin can be at an advantage in certain situations because it moves. It can also be a disadvantage however.

    Main fence combo:
    Tongbeiquan - KP - Who cares is a fence hit
    Kingpin - PPKKP - 545
    Tonbeiquans used as a fence combo is better because it lifts on second hit, very fast. It has perfect angle range and a small AoE range last hit making it impossible to miss if aimed towards the enemy target. It can also easily be followed up by a nanmu and is safe after final hit on a blocking opponent, allowing you to jump to safety or block. Kingpin, cant fence from far since the final hit must be done over the fence. It angles pretty bad. Its a longer combo, not very surprising.

    Launcher:
    Higher damage goes to Kingpin, But its slow and unsafe. While Tong is instant, surprising and easy. If blocked, You cant be punished too.



    Cz:
    Kingpin: A ground hit, something Tong doesnt have. But easy to saver because of its speed. Second safety hit that can launch, but if blocked, punishable. Easily predicted.
    Tong: Cz that is extremely safe, has massive potential to be used in angle play, its bait once landed even on blocking opponents because it gives you stun+recovery advantage.
    Cz winner goes to Tong.

    Tong can reset.
    Tong can do like Kingpin and reset mid nanmu because of a airial hit that causes juggle launcher.

    Winner by alot, Tong.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
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  13. RidleyPrime

    RidleyPrime Creator of Volt

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    pretty sure in a moon scenario volador is god tier hands down :p
    but i feel like sage being somewhat old and "outclassed" by a lot of newer scrolls its not as strong as it used to be. in a 1v1 scene, its pretty strong, but overall not so much.
     
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  14. hukurokuju5

    hukurokuju5 Member

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    Could you explain redemption SS placement? I thought that they had nerfed the blockstun on the kickcombo?
    hitboxes are nice. >>G is nice
     
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  15. FinnRF

    FinnRF New Member

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  16. Flamekiller

    Flamekiller Glacial Master & Clean Up Crew

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    Where's Inferno?
     
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  17. BloodNinja

    BloodNinja Well-Known Member

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    Nah sage will always be up there 2nd strongest punch combo on game lost to Vale by 5 damage I think

    Fastest charging gaurd breaker that has a 360 radius

    Kick combo is the god of angles u
    U can drop juggle so easily with it because of the flames
    Let's not even start with the range the range is enormous with huge aoes making it angle almost perfectly
    The grab is the farthest sending in game
    And because of said range what can happen is that u can fight from a distance to the point where u can skip panics the flame will still hit the opponent and u start hitting again sage is unfair in the right hands
     
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  18. TheFuzionBranz

    TheFuzionBranz Well-Known Member

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    Right.
    Sage does all its damage in smaller combos, Being beat by other scrolls is meaningless, cause most of the times damage is done by catching people off guard, which means people jumping or unblocking at some point. Which Sage shines because per hit its damage is rediculous.
    Its first punch and kick have a rediculously high hitbox making it hard to jump with safety againstit.
    AoE is pretty easy to dodge however in FFA its godlike tier.




    The scrolls stun simply got tuned down. It still has its GREAT recovery and decent damage output. It angles well, Works around the guard, guardbreak, CzP and nanmu that gives you placement play. You can constantly keep pressure with this scroll in every situation.

    Its main punch and kick combos are grabs, only hitting 1 person. Unless you do full only kick combo. Combo is stiff, hard to angle with that scroll well on moon. It does have a great one trick pony Cz and counter, including omin grabs. But I feel like every other place brings it down to normal tier, including its cons in moon.


    and Sage has its tier for its incredible damage output for small combos, massive range to hit as many people that are in your way. Nanmu is god tier damage. AoE guard breaker. Its true it doesnt have a super potential depth like other scrolls with many tools and wakeup game possibilities, however you dont even need anything other than KKK and PKP spam to turn games into your favor with basic knowledge.
     
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  19. RidleyPrime

    RidleyPrime Creator of Volt

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    but in a free for all setting, would zin karate still be able to compete or at least go even against newer scrolls.

    can i also point out that darksider and avenger are on the same tier. darksider dosent feel like it should be on the same level as avenger
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
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  20. TheFuzionBranz

    TheFuzionBranz Well-Known Member

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    Avenger actually has potential its just that they poorly designed its hitbox and animation movement which makes it so bad.
    While Dark sider has amazing control.
     
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